Interview de Balance ton Agency, le compte Instagram qui dénonce les abus dans les agences. Vous avez sans doute vu passer le scandale « Lou Yetu » qui est apparu sur les réseaux sociaux avec le compte Instagram Balance ta Startup (si ce n’est pas le cas, vous pouvez vous rattraper en lisant cet article). Le phénomène des comptes « Balance ton/ta » prend aujourd’hui de plus en plus d’ampleur et on a voulu revenir sur l’un des premiers comptes créés en Septembre dernier : Balance ton Agency. De son pseudonyme Julie Camille, pour rester anonyme, cette ex-communiquante dans la publicité a décidé de lancer ce compte afin de dénoncer les abus et harcèlements dans le milieu des agences.
Peux-tu te présenter ainsi que ton compte ?
J’ai été pendant plus de 10 ans dans le milieu de la publicité, j’ai été dans de grands groupes où j’ai pu être témoin d’harcèlement moral. À ce moment-là, on normalisait et banalisait un peu la chose, « c’est comme ça dans toutes les agences », « on doit passer par là », « c’est difficile ».
Au bout de quelques années, je me suis dit que c’était peut-être l’effet ‘grand groupe’ qui fait qu’on est des numéros et que si je vais dans une agence à taille humaine j’aurais peut-être moins cette sensation avec un côté plus humain. Malheureusement, ça n’a pas du tout été le cas, c’était même encore pire.
Quand on a un harceleur dans une petite boite on subit beaucoup plus que dans un grand groupe. Dans un grand groupe, si on est dans le « mauvais » département, on est mal tombé et on va souffrir mais si l’on n’est pas dans ce département on va s’en sortir. Là dans une petite boite, si le fondateur est un harceleur on va tous être victimes de cette personne. Ce qui, à ce moment donné, était le cas.
Je me suis mise ensuite en Freelance justement pour pouvoir choisir les agences avec lesquelles je voulais travailler. J’ai été un peu désorientée car c’était à moi de m’adapter aux problèmes qui n’émanaient pas de moi, c’était une situation quand même instable, mais pour éviter d’être harcelée c’était une solution.
Je suis ensuite retournée dans une toute petite agence et là j’ai fait un énorme Burn Out. Suite à ça, j’ai décidé de créer le compte pour que plus personne ne vive ça, ou en tout cas, moins car ce n’est malheureusement pas possible d’éradiquer complètement le harcèlement. Pour savoir où l’on pouvait aller en tant que publicitaire, moi j’avais de l’expérience qui pouvait m’aider à m’orienter mais les étudiants qui arrivent pas du tout et ils se retrouvent broyés dans ce système qui ne devrait plus exister.
Quel a été l’élément déclencheur à la création de ce compte ?
Mon Burn Out était tellement violent, je n’aurais jamais imaginé ça. C’était traumatisant, terrifiant, … On est coincé dans cet état de dépression soudaine et on se dit que l’on ne va jamais s’en sortir. Pourtant moi j’étais très bien entourée donc je n’imagine pas pour les personnes qui ne le sont pas.
Donc suite à ça, je me suis dit qu’il est important que les personnes soient au courant de leurs droits pour aussi se défendre quand il faut et ne pas se laisser broyer, ne pas normaliser, ne pas croire que c’est nous le problème car on nous le dit souvent : « tu n’es pas assez forte », « tu n’as pas les épaules », « c’est un milieu de requins », « si tu n’as pas cette force-là tu t’es trompée de voie ».
On nous fait croire que c’est nous le problème alors que pas forcement, moi on m’a dit ça, on m’a dit que j’étais peut-être trop faible pour y travailler du coup on se remet en question et on se dévalorise alors que ce n’est pas de notre faute.
Tu as un compte Instagram, Twitter et LinkedIn comment tu t’organises avec les 3 ?
Je ne fais pas tout avec les 3, je suis principalement sur Instagram.
- LinkedIn c’est plus un « outil d’enquête » pour voir si les personnes qui m’envoient des témoignages qui sont assez édifiants sont bien passées par ces agences. Je pars du principe que je crois les personnes mais avec la communauté qu’il y a sur le compte, je ne peux pas me permettre de balancer des témoignages faux de personnes qui ne sont pas passées par ces agences.
- Twitter beaucoup moins que ce que j’aurais aimé car je n’ai pas encore le temps. J’aimerais bien le déléguer à une personne de confiance car c’est un réseau très efficace pour les opérations de « coup de poing » avec les # pour mettre en avant une entreprise ou un mouvement.
- Instagram est très pratique pour avoir cette communauté avec laquelle on peut discuter, on peut échanger facilement, on peut prendre la température, faire des sondages… Mon but est d’être transparente. Les sondages ne sont pas toujours à mon avantage car je veux faire évoluer le compte dans le bon sens.
Je sais qu’il y a des gens qui ne sont pas forcément pour les « règlements de comptes » sur les réseaux sociaux et l’anonymat gêne beaucoup. Sauf que moi quand les personnes viennent me parler j’ai leur compte Instagram donc je peux vérifier. Je suis obligée de mettre les témoignages en anonyme car on est face à des énormes machines qui ont les moyens de se payer des grands avocats.
Aujourd’hui on a cherché à inverser la tendance.
Les personnes toujours en poste ont aussi peur que leur entreprise se « casse la gueule » et qu’ils se retrouvent au chômage mais ce que je leur réponds souvent c’est que ce n’est pas, à la base, de la faute du compte – Balance ton Agency – mais de la personne en interne qui harcèle et c’est à eux de se remettre en question. Quand il y a un harceleur il y a aussi un énorme turnover donc il y a déjà un gros problème économique au sein de l’agence qui doit embaucher et former de nouvelles personnes constamment et ça coûte cher. Donc ce n’est pas nous qui les mettons dans une mauvaise situation, c’est leur management et leur comportement qui font qu’ils en arrivent là.
Pour vérifier les témoignages tu vas principalement sur LinkedIn ou tu as d’autres moyens ?
Si je vois déjà que le compte Instagram n’est pas vivant : il a 0 abonnés, 0 abonnements, je me méfie énormément. J’attends aussi que les témoignages se recoupent entre eux. Je vais par exemple demander à la personne qui m’écrit de m’amener un/une autre (ex)collègue qui a été avec elle à ce moment-là et de témoigner à son tour. Ainsi je me créé le réseau qu’elles/ils ont connu à ce moment pour pouvoir tout balancer en même temps et vérifier si tout se recoupe.
Ensuite il y a les gens qui voient les témoignages et qui, comme en ce moment avec RCA Factory, vont appuyer les témoignages en racontant ce qui leur ait également arrivé en tant que témoin ou en victime.
Comment tu arrives à déterminer quels témoignages publier et lesquels mettre de côté ?
Ça dépend, si les témoignages sont lourds et graves comme il y a eu pour RCA Factory. Pour celui-ci la personne avait un « gros » compte, et m’a envoyé des vocaux où on sentait clairement sa détresse. Il y a un moment où je ne peux pas remettre en cause ce qu’elle me raconte, déjà dans un premier temps compte tenu de l’état dans lequel elle était quand elle témoignait puis dans un second temps, quand elle voit son témoignage en ligne ça lui fait encore un autre effet qui est très difficile. Ces personnes, ça leur fait du mal plus que du bien car elles vont ressasser tout cela et ça peut être des faits très récent donc ça les remet dedans. Elles vont aussi devoir être accompagnée par quelqu’un qui peut répondre à leur détresse comme je ne suis par formée pour.
Après je ne balance pas juste les témoignages et c’est fini, j’ai beaucoup d’empathie j’essaie d’avoir un long dialogue avec elles, de les accompagner au mieux. De toute façon, généralement ces personnes sont souvent suivies car ça a été des moments beaucoup trop intenses et douloureux.
Justement pour toi qui reçoit tous les témoignages ce n’est pas trop compliqué personnellement et moralement ?
Si, si bien sûr, par exemple, Mercredi je n’ai pas pu retenir mes larmes face à ce que je lisais et ce que j’entendais mais en même temps ça me rassure. On se blinde beaucoup en lisant tout ça, à prendre beaucoup de recul et de distance et j’ai l’impression parfois d’arriver à être un peu moins sensible qu’avant. Mais quand tu te retrouves avec des témoignages qui sont hyper poignants, qui te chamboulent aussi à ton tour, ça me rassure d’avoir encore ce côté humain que les harceleurs n’ont justement pas.
Il y a des journées qui sont plus difficiles que d’autres. Vous ce que vous lisez, ce que je publie c’est dur mais moi je lis vraiment tout, c’est-à-dire que je balance juste un tri, je lis tous les témoignages. À la fin de la journée je suis épuisée mais je l’ai choisi. Je ne peux pas me plaindre d’avoir ce rôle là car j’ai choisi d’être derrière ce compte. Je n’aurais jamais imaginé un tel engouement.
Est-ce que tu penses que le milieu de l’agence est plus propice à ce genre de pratique : sexiste/raciste/homophobes de par sa banalisation depuis plusieurs années ou c’est le même combat partout ?
On l’a vu c’est également dans les Startups – référence au compte Balance ta Start Up qui a dénoncé les pratiques chez Lou Yetu – Je ne dirais pas que c’est propre à la publicité mais c’est quand même un secteur assez toxique, très masculin, les personnes haut placées sont majoritairement masculines donc il y a encore ce patriarcat à déconstruire.
C’est aussi un milieu où on reste tard, on commence tard, vers 10 heures généralement, mais ont fini également tard, vers 20h, 21h, 22h, il n’y a pas vraiment d’heure de fin finalement. J’ai souvent terminé à 3h du matin. Donc on va se retrouver à faire des « charrettes ». On va passer beaucoup de temps avec les gens de notre agence, beaucoup plus de temps qu’avec notre famille et on va donc se constituer une « deuxième famille ». J’ai souvent entendu dans les témoignages les personnes qui disent « c’est comme une famille ».
Alors ça peut paraître super mais une famille dans un milieu professionnel ça ne colle pas et c’est comme ça qu’on arrive à avoir des dérives. On n’arrive plus à se dire qu’il y a d’un côté notre vie personnelle et de l’autre notre vie professionnelle. Il n’y a pas de limite, on ne sépare plus comme on devrait le faire donc on va avoir beaucoup plus de dérives à mon sens.
C’est un milieu où tout est permis, beaucoup plus que dans d’autres milieux, il y a de la drogue beaucoup plus qu’ailleurs, des soirées qui sont incroyables où on va boire et plus encore donc ça ne va pas non plus aider à délimiter.
Il y a aujourd’hui beaucoup plus de femmes qui font leurs études dans ce secteur, vous êtes le futur de la publicité, il sera féminin. Ça me conforte dans l’idée que ça va changer dans le positif.
J’ai remarqué que pour l’instant tu balançais principalement des agences parisiennes. Est-ce que c’est plus quelque chose plutôt relatif à Paris et sa région où c’est le même combat en province ?
Ah non mais en province c’est la cata aussi. C’est juste que je n’ai pas encore reçu suffisamment de témoignages. Je ne sais pas si c’est parce que les agences sont plus petites. J’ai eu quelques noms d’agences qui sont venus à mes oreilles mais je n’ai pas encore de témoignages concrets.
Que penses-tu du fait que de plus en plus de compte Balance ton/ta s’ouvrent ces derniers temps ?
Pour moi c’est la libération de la parole. Il y a eu Balance ton Porc avec Sandra Muller qui a été la première à rendre public ce type d’agissements. C’est ce que j’ai voulu faire également : mettre en lumière tout ce que l’on sait – car tout ça on le savait on n’a pas appris des trucs de dingue pour ceux qui sont dans la publicité depuis longtemps – mais on a enfin un endroit où l’on peut s’exprimer, où on peut libérer la parole, permettre aux personnes opprimées de se confesser, de se libérer de ce poids-là. C’est tellement propre au milieu du travail français que forcement on va avoir des « Balance ta/ton ».
Je pense que le problème est beaucoup plus général et vient surtout du système de la justice qui est long, on n’a pas forcément les moyens de se retrouver avec des avocats à la hauteur de ceux qu’on veut attaquer qui eux ont les moyens de se payer des avocats qui vont nous manger. J’avais aussi envie que la peur change de camps, que l’on soit plus nombreux maintenant nous, nous les invisibles, pour porter cette parole là qui s’est faite bouffée petit à petit. Avec la justice en général les personnes lâchent avant, l’avocate m’a dit que dans 85% des cas les affaires n’allaient pas jusqu’aux prud’hommes, ça se termine avec un chèque à l’amiable car on a envie d’en finir. La personne dans la boite va rester elle et c’est à toi de te reconstruire, de retrouver une autre agence, de te payer tes séances de psy, … Ce n’est pas logique.
Après bientôt plus de 5 mois depuis la création de ton compte fin Septembre, quelles évolutions as-tu déjà pu remarquer ?
Déjà le sondage que j’ai fait sur la remise en question. J’ai demandé aux gens « est-ce que vous, depuis la création du compte, vous vous êtes remis en question ? » 75% des gens ont répondu oui. Je trouve ça incroyable car la remise en question est ce qui va nous permettre d’avoir plusieurs points de vues, de s’ouvrir et de ne pas tomber dans des dérives. Pour moi, le fait qu’autant de personnes y ait déjà pensé c’est une énorme victoire.
- On a pu voir aussi des personnes qui ont été mises à pieds, licenciées, mises à l’écart qui ont démissionnées depuis le début du compte.
- Il y a eu des formations en internes qui se sont mises en place.
- Les Lionnes, qui avaient un peu lâché ont repris leurs actions et ont mis en place des questionnaires sur le harcèlement qui sont envoyés aux agences pour que les gens puissent répondre anonymement.
- C’est aussi relayé par les médias, et on va ainsi se poser la question de : Pourquoi est-ce qu’en France on est aussi en retard sur ces questions ?
Penses-tu qu’aujourd’hui avec tout ce qu’il se passe, les clients devraient s’informer sur le fonctionnement de l’agence avec laquelle ils travaillent ou souhaitent travailler ?
Si totalement ! Parfois ils sont même responsables de la mauvaise ambiance car ils mettent une pression incroyable dans l’agence et comme le client est roi, s’il demande des délais beaucoup trop serrés, au lieu d’essayer de les négocier on va accepter et on va se retrouver broyer pour réaliser ça. Donc le client à un vrai rôle à jouer, il est responsable, c’est vraiment important. Ce n’est pas que les agences qu’on veut bouger via ce compte, c’est tout ce système « il faut faire vite et bien ». C’est compliqué pour l’agence de temporiser car elle a peur de perdre son client car elle savait qu’il pourra très bien aller en voir une autre qui lui fera le travail dans ses délais. A l’heure actuelle les agences ont très peur de perdre des clients car on peut vite se retrouver la clé sous la porte.
Pour s’en sortir il faudrait que le client change aussi un peu d’attitude.
Quels sont tes objectifs à court, moyen et long terme pour ton compte ?
Je ne sais pas si je pourrais faire des updates, si le compte existera encore et si mon identité ne sera pas encore dévoilée. Si elle est dévoilée je ne pourrais plus dénoncer ce qu’il se passe car je risque de procès pour diffamation et je recevrais surement des menaces. Le but c’est que ça tienne encore un bout de temps car il y a encore du travail à faire.
- Transformer peut-être le compte en une association, pouvoir m’y consacrer à 100% et pouvoir en vivre un minimum car aujourd’hui ce n’est pas le cas.
- Voir aussi ce que l’on peut mettre en place avec les autres comptes comme ‘Balance Ta Startup’ qui font la même chose.
- Pouvoir mettre en place des formations dans des écoles, voire des agences.
- Rendre le droit plus accessible en faisant intervenir des professionnels en droit.
- Faire du contenu qui peut, par exemple, aider les gens à sortir d’un Burn Out car à mon époque j’aurais aimé avoir quelque chose pour m’aider, je ne savais pas trop vers qui me tourner à part mon psychiatre mais on a besoin de plus de soutien.
- Mettre tout ça en place pour un accompagnement durable.
- Voir aussi pour faire un Label mais avec des outils, de la transparence, je veux que l’on puisse savoir sans passer par mon compte comment les gens se sentent dans leur agence et que l’on puisse vérifier rapidement, pas simplement mettre un tampon, c’est trop dangereux.
J’ai vu que tu avais créé un Tipeee, c’est dans quel but ?
L’idée du Tipeee c’est d’essayer d’en vivre un peu comme je suis à 100% dessus, ça me prend beaucoup de temps. J’essaie aussi de faire des enquêtes. Ça me motive, c’est ce qui me permet de me lever le matin, j’ai qu’une envie c’est de partager avec les gens, de parler avec eux c’est ce que je veux faire tous les jours mais au bout d’un moment si je ne peux pas payer mon loyer il arrivera un moment où je ne pourrais plus le faire. Donc j’ai mis ça en place, il est discret, je ne peux pas encore vivre de ça mais aussi c’est difficile de dire aux gens d’y contribuer.
Ça me permettra de faire ce que j’aime, faire du contenu plus intéressant, plus approfondi mais aussi de payer les gens qui peuvent m’aider.
Quels conseils donnerais-tu à un/une jeune qui souhaite se lancer dans le milieu de l’agence ?
Garder espoir, ça change, ça bouge.
On est en train de remettre en question plein de choses, pas seulement avec mon compte mais aussi avec tous les mouvements. Il y a plein de choses dont on ne parlait pas il y a 2 ans.
Quand pour vous il sera l’heure de travailler en entreprise et d’être, après, à des postes hauts placés, il faudra toujours vous rappeler d’où vous venez, et que vos agissements ont un impact sur la santé de vos futurs employés. Travailler dans une agence saine, dans une ambiance bienveillante va aussi aider à l’économie de votre entreprise.
Vous êtes les futurs acteurs de demain. Nous on est juste là pour vous libérer un peu la voie, pour vous aider à prendre conscience de ce qu’est le harcèlement, de connaitre vos droits car c’est important de les connaitre pour pouvoir se battre.
Conseil : suivre le mouvement et être de futurs acteurs du mouvement comme ceux qui sont en place actuellement.
Continuer d’y croire et de vous battre pour faire en sorte que ça change.
Justine C
Petit récap de tous les comptes « Balance » qu’il existe actuellement : Balance ton Agency, Balance ta Startup, Balance ton Stage, Balance ta Rédaction, Balance ta Maison, Balance Ton Ecolesup, Je dis non chef, Balance ton Boss, Balance ton Cabinet, Balance ton Tatoueur, Balance ton Lado, Balance ton Luxe, Balance ta Major, Balance ton Cabinet d’Avocats, Balance ton Université, Balance ton Agence Immo, Balance ton Évènementiel, Balance ton élu.
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